Question: Does the ELF (theoretically) have predictable effect on the A/F ratios on both:
a. Partial throttle in boost acceleration?
b. Wide Open Throttle in boost acceleration?

and:

Should both situations provide the same A/F ratios or not?

All the above using the same boost pressure and RPM range as a given.

I agree. In fact, my plan is to use the ELF 5'th injector output to trigger external drivers to run all 4 additional injectors in the R4 manifold.

Come on guys, get the new ELF code to us.

David

quote:

Originally posted by WLAURENT:
I think the VVT and secondary (5th in most cases) injector were the add-on features discussed. In my book the VVT is not as important as the 5th injector capability.

I had a discussion with someone regarding the JRPC-Pro they had tested. Sounds like using the additional injector feature really slows down response time on the PC-Pro. Was told the plan was to use 2 of them - on for the main injectors and the other to just control the 5th injector.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Cobranut,

Mine is more of an occasional hickup....may do it several times while driving under normal conditions then may not do it again for a month.

Mine was installed by BRP in December of 05'. It has gotten a litte more frequent over the last few months. This may seem weird but if I turn the key on and wait about 5-6 seconds before starting the car, it seems to not hickup as often. If I just jump in turn the key and go, it will do it 50% of the time. Sound familiar to anyone?

Any updates guys?

I will have 4 revised ELFs in my hands tomorrow. So far, the one that is on the local test car is working good. We've got another that we're testing on the '06 Miata. Tomorrow I will send the ELFs out to four members of the test group.

James, the test group consisted of six people. Why only four ELFs?

Two more will ship tomorrow.

What exactly is fixed in this new ELF? Low rpm richness? boost transition? Lean upper rpm? O2 clamp? The current useless of the p1, p2, p4 adjustment? I'm just trying to get an idea, so I can make an inform decision. I have an ELF now and wondering if I should wait for the fix, or get a new fuel solution.

Don't you just love the instant response to questions here? I've been instantly ignored on almost every question I have posed.

Kyp.....I can't say I am feeling the love myself. So many questions.....so few answers. I remember the good ole days when BRP was calling ME with answers and not the other way around.

I think a alittle more effort needs to be focused on some of the customers that helped get them to where they got to....not on playing catch up of new products......

quote:

Originally posted by Zigzag:
Kyp.....I can't say I am feeling the love myself. So many questions.....so few answers. I remember the good ole days when BRP was calling ME with answers and not the other way around.

I think a alittle more effort needs to be focused on some of the customers that helped get them to where they got to....not on playing catch up of new products......

Anyone notice James is pretty much a one man show?

Yeah, no kiddin'! I have called them several times in the past week though, and James was available every time. I just wonder if anyone is going to start helping him out soon. I haven't heard from Brant in a long time- do you think that might have something to do with his new contract since the buyout?

-Hamid

I know James is giving it 200%. Just sounds like he could use some help. Certainly not his fault. We are still with you bud just keep chuggin!

My apologies gang. I'm not purposefully ignoring anyone.

I am making a conscious effort not to promise or make public predictions as to what is or will happen or anything like that. In other words, not be so transparent with all development, projected goals, etcetera (not just with ELF, but other products/projects as well). To a degree I think this sometimes led to the problem of over-promising and under-delivering. Partly for this reason we have a test group for the revised ELF modules. The changes are designed to correct most/all of the issues and are in testing now. How well it works as implemented we will learn from the testing group. Four of the units are either in a test group members hands, or in transit to them. The other two units will be sent to the remaining two testers soon.

I assure you we are working hard in the right direction. And by we I don't mean just me. Jeff Barker, Brant, and myself have spent the last couple weekends at the dyno working with the new ELF on the '06 too. Furthermore, I've created a new user ID "ELF Tech." A representative from the supplier of the ELF modules has said he would be willing (in his limited available time) to come on to the forum from time to time and offer some input regarding the ELF module's functions. Please note that "ELF Tech" is not a SOT employee and has been kind enough to offer his contributions on his own time. He'll primarily be working with me and the test group, but may contribute in the general discussion forums as well. While this may not be the ideal situation, I felt the gesture was very kind and should benefit customers and myself as well.

We're fully aware that the responsiveness and transparency of product development is not at the level we've all grown accustomed (and perhaps spoiled?) to here. I understand the frustration, as well as appreciate the words of encouragement and support. With time and increased resources I do believe we'll eventually get through this though.

Thanks!

quote:

Question: Does the ELF (theoretically) have predictable effect on the A/F ratios on both:
a. Partial throttle in boost acceleration?
b. Wide Open Throttle in boost acceleration?

and:

Should both situations provide the same A/F ratios or not?

All the above using the same boost pressure and RPM range as a given.

The ELF Adds fuel based on Pressure only actually. With the lastest software the pots control the ELF setup in the following manner...

P1 Sets the pressure above the sampled ambient pressure the ELF starts adding fuel (0-5psi range)

P2 Sets the Rate of increase from 0-2ms of additional fuel per psi of pressure above the P1 setting

P3 Acts as a ceiling controlling the max amount of extension the ELF is allowed to generate (2.4-6.5ms Currently)


In regards to the ELF's effect on part throttle boost the ELF will add fuel as needed based on pressure. When you first start to accel, pressures increase and the ELF fuels accordingly, as the desired speed is reached, the pressure and load will decrease naturally and the ELF's enrichment will also reduce from the loss of pressure.

For wide open throttle the ELF operates in the same manner supplying fuel based on the Pressure sensed. On cars operating in the ELF's effective range, Air/Fuel ratios appear to reflect the OEM ECU's Fuel tables. The ELF Pots allow for adjustments to tweak this to the desired results.

quote:

Mine is more of an occasional hickup....may do it several times while driving under normal conditions then may not do it again for a month.

Mine was installed by BRP in December of 05'. It has gotten a litte more frequent over the last few months. This may seem weird but if I turn the key on and wait about 5-6 seconds before starting the car, it seems to not hickup as often. If I just jump in turn the key and go, it will do it 50% of the time. Sound familiar to anyone?

Any updates guys?

BRP Coldside #1 NA MP62

I would suggest you check and recheck your MAP sensor connection. On the test car the ELF was developed on there was an issue of the signal line collapsing off boost and causing hickups during the transitions into boost as the hose popped open again.

Another suggestion would be to verify your connection at the ELF if you have a short piece of black hose there connecting the ELF to a small hard tubing, I have seen this a few times as well.

What exactly is fixed in this new ELF? Low rpm richness? boost transition? Lean upper rpm? O2 clamp? The current useless of the p1, p2, p4 adjustment? I'm just trying to get an idea, so I can make an inform decision. I have an ELF now and wondering if I should wait for the fix, or get a new fuel solution.

>>>>

Guessing from your Low RPM Richness Im guessing you have an 01+. The richness comes from the oem ECU having enough injector to supply its own fuel down low. This is the reason for the additional range in P1 from 0-5 psi. Even on the 99-00 model the ELF was tested on the OEM ECU could offer fuel for 2 psi without assistance.

I would give the test group a few days to evaluate the new chip and make your decisions from their observations.

quote:

Originally posted by ELF Tech:
What exactly is fixed in this new ELF? Low rpm richness? boost transition? Lean upper rpm? O2 clamp? The current useless of the p1, p2, p4 adjustment? I'm just trying to get an idea, so I can make an inform decision. I have an ELF now and wondering if I should wait for the fix, or get a new fuel solution.

>>>>

Guessing from your Low RPM Richness Im guessing you have an 01+. The richness comes from the oem ECU having enough injector to supply its own fuel down low. This is the reason for the additional range in P1 from 0-5 psi. Even on the 99-00 model the ELF was tested on the OEM ECU could offer fuel for 2 psi without assistance.

I would give the test group a few days to evaluate the new chip and make your decisions from their observations.

Thanks for the input, its greatly appreciated.

You are correct, I do have an 01. My P1 is set at max 10, and p2 is at 0, and its still very rich. A/f was 8.5 on the wideband(Pretty much as low as it could read).

Are you guys working on different chips for different years? Or will the Pots be tuned differently?

Im not sure what version of code you are running, either 0-1 psi of 0-2 psi for Pot1 depending on the software. The latest software with 0-5 should help your problem or solve it. Once the test group completes testing we will see if 2 versions of software are needed. The 0-5psi seems to work well on the 06 so it may be the ticket for all years.

James,
With the limited time you have, I don't think you need to apologize for the manufacturer of the ELF. As a customer who bought a product that doesn't work, I'm offended that it took this long for them to come on line and address some of the issues that are common to this product. Many on here have been patient while waiting for a fix. I for one do not feel like he is graciously donating "limited time". When you buy a product, the expectation is that it will work now, not 6 months or a year. The ones that were not working should have been replaced immediately. In my case the car is a toy and not a daily driver but had I blown the motor due to a lean condition caused by a malfunctioning product I don't think I would be gracious about it.

quote:

Originally posted by ELF Tech:

quote:

I would suggest you check and recheck your MAP sensor connection. On the test car the ELF was developed on there was an issue of the signal line collapsing off boost and causing hickups during the transitions into boost as the hose popped open again.

Another suggestion would be to verify your connection at the ELF if you have a short piece of black hose there connecting the ELF to a small hard tubing, I have seen this a few times as well.

"signal line collapsing off boost"? Are you saying it could be the rubber vaccuum line to the ELF? "MAP sensor connection"? I will look into this as well. Any other ideas?